Discus Project Log

Ok, I have been posting around on various threads about my attempt to get my Wild Heckels to spawn... This is going to be my diary of my tank care, conditions and parameters in case anyone is interested in following. If nothing else it will help me track what I am doing.

I figured because this IS the time for the "Rainy Season" and I have wild fish, now is my best time to attempt to get a pair or even if I am REALLY lucky a spawn.

As of today I have 1 Wild guarding a piece of driftwood... same one that has been for some time now. I believe this is a MALE as many male Cichlids find the ground to breed on and guard it trying to attract a female. I DO see which fish this one wants, it comes over to the area about every 10 minutes and is the ONLY other fish that this one does not push away from the log... there is gentle nipping and pushing but no violent behavior from these 2.... This "female" though does not stay over with "him" so I dont think there is a bond yet

A new fish (again I think a male) has taken of protecting the filter intake on my Emperor 400. This one whacks everyone away from there and has not let any fish come near it. This one is almost pitch black unless it is feeding time. Also a promising sight.... still watching though...

My Parameters Today:
Temp - 87
PH - 5.5-5.8 (my kit is not accurate this low)
KH - < 10 ppm
GH - 60 ppm
Nitrate - 30 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Ammonia - 0 ppm
Water Change - 10% cold tap water (Primed) change

 

Ok, I made the choice after watching these 2 Heckels for the past few days to put them in that 55 by themselves... they are in and together cowering in the corner right now... a few hours and I will get them eating!

Hopefully this is what I think it is I hope I grabbed 2 of the opposite sex! The one was prepping the nesting site and the other was allowed in to the territory so I feel it is a fair assumption... But we all know what Assume spells out

 

Here are pics of the fish and the tank!

They were added less than 5 minutes prior to these photos... they are moving around a bit and now are eating both live blackworms and granules!!!! I should be good to go with the move!

Sorry about the dirty glass on the tank.... I have not gotten around to cleaning it!

 

Those dark bars are what make a Heckel!

 

Ok, so as of today I am planning on expanding this project a bit more... I am going to pull out of all fish that are not Discus meaning my Angelfish and Endlers need new homes to make room.

As of now I am not going to sell, BUT I think here soon I will also be selling my 30 Gallon tank and my 20 Gallon tank... I plan on upgrading to 1 75 gallon and dividing that one tank into 3...

My plan is to find potential pairs in my 125 and pick them out and put them together alone. I think this is the only way to get this to happen. I have spent enough time with Discus and know the sex of over half of the fish in the tank.

I did some in-depth research and discovered that Corys and Tetras WILL rob the spawn.... Many-times the Discus just WONT spawn because of them.... that might be my problem! I need to separate my show from my breeders!

Because of this I need more room....


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Also update on the "pair" of Heckels, they are still sticking together and they are still a bit stressed from the move.... still eating though so that IS a GREAT thing!!!

 

Ok, this thread after today is going to be tracking 3 tanks!

125 - Show tank (I am not trying to breed in this tank, just find pairs)
55 - Heckel Pair (possible pair)
30 - A yet to be determined Domesticated pair

05/12/09 - Conditions
125 Gallon
Temp - 89
PH - 5.5-5.8 (off chart, ends @ 6)
GH - 4°dH
KH - 0°-1°dH
Notes: Fish are more spread out because the "male" that I pulled out was holding down half the tank not allowing the others to go to that side. Stress levels are a bit lower but a pecking order is restarting


55 Gallon
Temp - 83
PH - 6.6
GH - 3°dH
KH - 2°dH
Notes: 2 are eating a bit better but still not used to activity in the room. Sometimes I come near the tank and they dart away and hide. They are eating well though. Stress bars are lighter than yesterday and they are still side by side with only gentle nips and nudges.

30 Gallon
Temp - 82
PH - 6.5
GH - 3°dH
KH - 1°dH
Notes: Tank is now empty of fish (Angelfish Gone) and I am studying the 125 for the pair to go in here.

 

I picked my pair of Domestics... I dont know how well this will work I picked the bully male that is my avitar and one of the Red Sunsets (she had her thingy hanging out ) I think I am living in an idealistic world... between the impossible to breed Heckels and the Male Marlboro that does not like any other fish, this is going to either be a great success story or a complete disaster...

Photos of both tanks and the fish:

55 Tank



30 Tank



This would be a Marlboro Red strain... Marlboro Reds and Sunsets are VERY close to the same strain.

 

Thats what I am talking about!

I picked out the 2 hardest "pairs" I could have possibly done.... the 2 Marlboros were selectively chosen and dont get me started on the Heckels.... to put it this way..... It is not disputed that SOMEBODY has bred a pair of Wild Heckels... BUT there are not photos of it nor is there any video.... It is that rare! Hundreds have tried and Hundreds have failed!

Im going to try to hang with the big boys with my SKILZ!!!

 

Well that is kind of what this section is for me... I dont have a good way to video... but I sure can shoot photos and log everything

 

Well, my luck is out on the 2 domestics.... that male bullied the female and drove her to hide in a corner.

Those 2 are now back in the main tank...

2 Heckels were added to the 30... these 2 were hanging out on the right side of the tank near the back and did not seem like anything until today... After removing them most of the other Discus in the 125 let their stress bars ALL THE WAY DOWN! So... another pair maybe?

30 Gallon tank - 20% water change
55 Gallon tank - 15% water change

We will see. I kept the 30 with the same setup just switched fish. BTW the 2 that went into that tank are my 2 largest Discus... They are the 2 monsters that were in my 125.

So as of now I doubled the chances of a Wild Heckel spawn...

Also here is another thing

55 - Blackwater
30 - White water

 

Re: Following Lem's Lead

No not at all! Journals rock! It provides great information and also gives yourself a log as to what works and what dont that you can refer to later. Lots of work sometimes in larger projects.

It is always good to see what works and more importantly if nothing does, what does not.

 

After feedings this morning the 2 Heckels in the 30 gallon look much less stressed and ate well for their morning feeding. Actually from observation (the little I did) this morning this does seem likely to be an actual pair themselves....

I come to this conclusion because in the 2 years of keeping Discus and observation of them, I have noticed these differences in the sexes of them. (this is a bit different that what else is noted online about them)

Males:

• Males are actually usually a bit smaller than the females many times but size IS NOT a true indication as growth rates may have been different
• Males dont stress as easy.... Males tend to more often keep their stress bars off and appear lighter in coloration than the females
• IF they are looking for a female (also IF they hold true to par Cichlid behavior) they will be the ones that start guarding territory before any other joins them.
• More aggressive and tend to push at tankmates more often. Their quarrels tend to be what you would consider violent in respect to Discus behavior (Discus ARE NOT that violent as a species)

Females:

• Females tend to stress easy and are more weary of their environment. Given the same tank they seem to be the ones that have their stress bars up more often. Also because of this IMO I feel that females are the ones that more often succumb to illnesses, making them the harder of the 2 sexes to keep.
• Tend to be fairly passive to other tankmates. If there is any quarreling they kind of gently push. They dont ram and whack others. Careful though because also IMO males will act like this to the females they desire so watching this requires a more open eyed, objective opinion of their behavior

That said, both tanks have 1 smaller and 1 larger.... the smaller one in each patrols the territory and seems to be more adventurous with stress bars off. The larger kind of sits behind the smaller one and moves more cautiously and shows more stress bar than the smaller one. This behavior is shown in both tanks already.

Having the 2 tanks allows me to try 2 different ways of attempting to spawn them... 1 in a natural environment and 1 in an artificial. My 55 is the natural and the 30 is the artificial.

Its all about territory!
55 - These for the most part maintain the area on the left of the tank next to the vertical rise of driftwood. They do wander around the tank and can be seen anywhere in the tank, however they seem like that one are is their "home"
30 - These 2 (*sigh) seemed to take a liking to the filter intake tube.... There is a cone in the tank but I keep finding them hanging out near the intake tube anyways.... oh well, I will take what I can get and at least they have a claim on something they could breed on... (even though I would need to shut the filter down and put another on that tank... I could do that if need be though )

 

Update tonight

55 - Same behavior as before... they are like 2 synchronized swimmers in this one

30 - This one is interesting... both have more color than I have EVER seen in them and no stress bars. They are gently pushing each other around and shivering near each other... this looks more like the courtship of the Angelfish now! They are both hanging in the proximity of the cone now I dont know what to think.... Sometimes the behavior is a bit aggressive, but not as much as I have seen in the 125 between 2 known males... we will see and only time will tell! For fighting a bit they have no stress bars..... wierd