Plants In Fresh Water Tank

1st...the carbon is removing everything from your water-->don't use it in a planted setup

2nd....run the lights for up to 10hours straight through (no break in between..and no lights/or leds only at night when NORMAL lights are off) also..use 6700K - 10,000K bulbs (6700k are more ideal). Dependant on what you have in there I'd go with moderate lighting at least...for a 20g your looking at 2.5wpg utilizing plant bulbs (6700K - 10,000K)= 50w light fixture

3rd...with proper filtration (or even a highly planted tank) you won't need the airstone. (I use one in mine only due to the high temps -86F+ for the discus). IF you ever use co2 you'd definitely want to do away with the airstone. (ps. not using co2 here either ... planted 90g and 10g)

4th...What substrate are you using? I use eco-complete...stuff is fab! Also, potted plants will grow as they should when removed from the pots and planted directly into the substrate. If you do, don't forget to remove the wooly like stuff they pack around them...at least as much as you can.

5th...on any size tank you should be doing a weekly water change...roughly about 10-15% depending on how heavily your stocked. Also, don't forget to add a dechlorinator BEFORE the clean water goes in (I use prime).

6th...what's your Ph, Nitrates, Nitrites? I've found if you stick with plants suitable for your Ph your usually good to go without adding much of anything.

7th...losing leaves, yellow and mush are due to the plants not receiving nutrients to grow. (carbon removing them as fast as you add them).

Symptoms Possible Cause Action

1)

2)

If I were you, you have a small enough tank where Seachem Flourish Excel should be reasonable (considering I buy the big jug for my 90g)...if your plants have roots on them and your not using a plant substrate such as eco you may wanna grab yourself some flourish root tabs and place them beneath the substrate a couple inches from the roots...the roots will grow towards the tab and latch into them enabling it to have a strong base.
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... Excel.html

and if you have any red colored plants (which should be high light plants at at least 3wpg), you'll want to add Flourish Iron.

Start with a minimum of products, you can always add others if the need presents itself. Start with Flourish Iron...give it a week or two and see how they look. If a problem presents itself post it here and I'd be glad to help you as I'm sure others would be too!

Ps. If you need plant chemicals in bulk and want liquids I can give ya a few links on where I manage to find them cheapest...if you want dry or poor mans dry you might want to post as I'm pretty sure that James (otto journal) is using that route.

 

CHARCOAL, CARTRIDGES, MEDIA
I know what your talking about (embossed pads)...and no charcoal..means zip..zilch..notta.

If you want to continue using the pads I know others on here have slit them and poured out the charcoal and sewed them back up with fishing string?

But my recommendation would be something along the line of removing the filterfloss..dumping the carbon...and using the "plastic rigid shell" as a sort of partition (man, I hope this makes sense to you) and stuffing some floss behind it...heck if you even wanted to get fancy you could go diy and break a few pieces of terra cotta or lava rock for beneficial bacteria to grown on and stick that towards the front of the partition since the weight alone will keep it in place.

As for cheap filter floss (cheap...use to get mine at wal-mart, but now grab it at JoAnn's Fabric when I get a 40% off coupon since my wal-mart stopped carrying it). Photo attached is what particular brand I (and many others) use.

FERTILIZE
according to the manufactures recommendations>> I just like seachem because it's a liquid...I don't have to mix anything...it's safe for anything you keep (scaleless..inverts...etc)...and dosing is simple (can use the cap)...and it doesn't feed algae.

WATER CHANGES
Get a new fish guy, lol...water changes to a minimum?!? Sounds like he likes taking your cash.
Frequent water changes...always a good thing. Why? The main reason being Because it pulls the waste out of the water!
Ex: Think of it like living in a toilet bowl...if you have to live there do you want one that is flushed more often OR less often?

FILTER MAINT.
Filters should be maint. monthly...to do this shut them off...rinse the media inside the tank (saving the ben. bacteria)...wait long enough for the grime to settle...and then do your partial (siphon)...dose...and add clean water. During the time the filter is off you'll want to see if it needs rinsed out or if the impeller needs a good ungriming too. (I find using a new toothbrush comes in handy for this...keep it with your fishkeeping supplies). Granted, you'll probably hear where someone will say to simply toss the media and fill with brand new EVEN WHEN it can be rinsed and reused that way you won't muck up your tank with the cartridge grime that it's trapped...well you can do this too...but the beneficial bacteria will be gone and you'll more than likely encounter a mini-cycle at the least>>kinda defeating the purpose of stabilizing the tank and getting/keeping the parameters in check.

PREVENT DEAD SPOTS/POCKETS
Also, if it's a tiny tight packing gravel make sure to jiggle your siphon around to loosen it up when your doing your partials (prevents dead spots/pockets which will harvest yuckys). I use the Python No Spill Clean N Fill...things a god send! Wish I didn't hold out so long on getting one

QUESTION TO YOU
What is your lighting your running on the tank? Total wattage? Type and K of bulbs?

We'll get you on the right path and you'll have fab plants in no time..just takes some patience and testing this and that to see what works best for your setup.

Oh, and if you don't understand something or need to know a bit more just ask...didn't want to flood ya with too much (I know how frustrating it can be when your told you only need to do this and that...and then you find out theres quite a bit more..but believe me..it's do-able).

 

Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:36 pm

Wow, you got alot accomplished..Go You!!

YOUR FIXTURE
With a blue light that sounds like a saltwater fixture (blue= actinic...which is for saltwater)
wattage should be imprinted on the bulb end in addition to the kelvin (k) rating (bulbs should always be replaced at a minimum once a year).

Can you post a photo of your setup..I'd love to see it if you could?

YOUR MEDIA
white sheet sounds like simply filter floss (some lfs sell it in squares/sheets that can be cut to custom fit your filter). Sometimes they come in colors and are supposed to remove certain things (I remember seeing ones that remove nitrates and was blue...one that reduces phosphates and was brown...etc).
If it's simply filter floss you can use it all the time...just rinse it every 2 weeks (or more often if needed).

BENEFICIAL BACTERIA
I'd still add some bio-balls at a min (or terra cotta/lava rock/etc) for the beneficial bacteria to cling/establish itself on.
The establishment of beneficial bacteria in the aquarium and in the filter media will help in the conversion of ammonia to nitrite and then the conversion of nitrite to nitrates. Simply put, it attacks the baddies and helps to keep your tanks water readings more stable...stability is a good thing because shifts/fluctuations are bad and will kill (probably found that out already).

CHARCOAL/CARBON
-> And they informed you right about not using the charcoal when treating with meds...BECAUSE charcoal will remove meds>any additives you put in there>think of it/charcoal as an erradicator.
The only time you should use it is AFTER you have treated with medications in order to make sure they have been completely removed from your water system.

As for your question if fish need charcoal filters..the answer is nope. Unless your medicating the tank...AND done with medicating it and want the meds out of the water.
Some use it because its an odor remover/reducer...but if you have smelly water then somethings amiss and you should get to the root of it and not just put a bandaid on it anyways. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to use it...at least its not in a tank THAT WASN"T being dosed with plant additives,
but in your case with the plants and adding chemicals for them your defeating the purpose of adding the plant growth chemicals...because the carbon is pulling it out as fast as you put it in.
Hence, part of your reason for plant death...the 2nd part I'm betting is due to inadequate/improper lighting.

 

Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:06 am

MEDIA
water clarifier? I'm wondering if its nitrasorb or biochem sorb (or something along those lines)..if it is...and it's brown then it's exhausted and either needs replaced or regenerated per manufacture specifications (if regenerable the instructions would be something along the lines of usually a PLAIN clorox bleach soak overnight...and then a thorough rinsing...and a soak overnight in a good dechlorinator such as PRIME...and allow to air dry).

Washing/BB
Driftwood doesn't need "washed"...stones simply get treated like substrate in the sense if they are small enough then siphon past/over them if need be. Oh, you can also use pot scrubbies (the plasticy feeling blue ones that don't contain the scratchy aluminum-metaly stuff) in the back of the filter for the ben. bacteria to grow on..forgot to mention that earlier on.

LIGHTING
If the hood fits across the tank, you don't need a new hood...you probably just need the proper type bulbs (if you pull one out check the wattage on the end and what the reading (kelvin rating) is and whether it's a compact flourescent bulb..t5..t8..t12...etc bulb. Sometimes you can get bulbs that will work perfectly for aquariums & planted tanks at the hardware store for SOOooo Much cheaper than the lfs (local fish store). That was the reason I was asking for the bulb type...how many were in the fixture...and the wattage>>because I could have told you exactly what to ask them for at somewhere such as Wal-mart/Lowes/HomeDepot/Local Electric Store.
Heck, you could even simply take a bulb out of the fixture and take it with you and tell them you need one of these in the 6700K - 10000K spectrum.

ps. with the soft water you may wanna check the pH various times until you know for sure your not having Ph swings (which will also cause death to inhabitants and plant issues). Soft water is generally a reading 70 to 135 ppm -- 4 to 8 GH (dH)....I have tap water which is low in pH (I stay at 6.0 steady straight from the spicket) and luckily don't have shift issues...but I know others I've talked with that had soft water would say about Ph swings being a problem?

Sounds like things are coming along nicely...and i was referring to water "smells" as being more a funky..what rotted and died kinda smell..I'm sure yours is perfectly fine from what you've described

 

Aquarium Salt
yea, the aquarium salt is unnecessary and does cause salt buildup on your equipment which is a bleep to remove. Just another unnecessary added expense (yep, learned the hard way on alot of things over the years myself too).

I couldn't work in a lfs..I'd be telling everyone not to get this or that and to goto the hardware store and grab this instead and referring people to websites where they could save extra money (saving is always a good thing)

Regeneration
Don't forget the dechlorinator soak and air drying afterwards too. They probably won't become spotless>>but should be good for another go round. Purigen Bags are a really good product that I frequently use (I think Anthony is still using them too ... he's the one that turned me onto them if I remember right).

Lighting
Dependant on whether this is a 20 High (24x12x16), 20 Long (30x12x12), 20 Tall (20x10x24) or 20 Hexagon (18x16x2) I can link you to some recommended lights that will do the trick for ya!

Your current fixutre sounds like the run of the mill one piece canopy hood that sometimes comes with the tank as a combo deal...the bulbs in them are normally standard Fluorescent tubes and are low wattage and typically not even enough to grow most low watt plants. We need to get you into a moderate light setting where you can grow low watt plants and moderate watt plants...the high light plants (mostly your red looking ones in general) you might not be able to run with, but most of them use/need co2 to keep there nice colors anyways and require iron dosing too...Now granted if your using flourish excel that is the same as co2 (just liquid forum), so you might be amazed what you can grow in that 20g of yours with a new proper light.

Regardless, your gonna wanna aim for 2.5wpg for the 20g...so a 50w fixture will do the trick.
If you wanna nice bright tank you'll wanna go with t-5's or compact flourescent bulbs (I'd try for t-5's since they are cheaper to replace and easier to find ime).

Once you give me your tank size (tall>long>high>hex) I'll link you directly to online stores where you can order the fixtures through them if you want (or at the very least will give you a price comparison for what you want)...I'd also suggest browsing Ebay (verified sellers only with good feedback and a return policy should it arrived damaged)...Dependant on the size of tank you can sometimes get a shop light from wal-mart or the hardware store and swap the bulbs out with ones that are 6700K- 10,000K bulbs (full spectrum daylight>plant Bulbs>blah blah blah).

I know I've seen shop lights with two switches where you can independantly control the bulbs..in that case you can get fancy and run one midday bulb for x amount of hours...have it kick off and have the next bulb come on which is usually a full sun bulb and have that kick off...and if your really looking for something nice to look at during the night then buy a 1w Coralife Lunar Blue or White Bulb and stick it on the side ...set it on a timer to come on when the fixture goes off and you'll have round the clock mag. lighting!

 

-> 20 High you've got then.

ABOUT YOUR LIGHT
Odyssea is a low grade light (hence the water getting in a corrosion) and the cf stands for Compact Fluorescent (they are good bulbs..I had them in my last fixture before upgrading to the t-5s).

65w 50/50 --> sounds like you got this type of bulb (saltwater as I originally thought) http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/242503/product.web
and that this is your current fixture--> http://cgi.ebay.com/AQUARIUM-LIGHT-24%2 ... 4008r29742

FIXTURE RECOMMENDATIONS
Not knowing what you want to spend, we'll start with ebay finds first.
always use free click through programs for cashback...I use BigCrumbs
for Ebay>> http://www.bigcrumbs.com/crumbs/
[*] .99cents and shipping costs at time of paste
http://cgi.ebay.com/Coralife-24-Power-C ... 335bb87572
[*]$9.99 and shipping costs at time of paste (not perfect for plants, but nice because of the full canopy..can always stick a plant bulb in there)
http://cgi.ebay.com/24-Deluxe-Full-Hood ... 414e4e9227
[*]T5's are super bright in comparison to what you have (compact fluorescents)...this would be a great one if they'd switch the actinic for a plant bulb!! buy it now auction
http://cgi.ebay.com/24-T5-HO-Aquarium-L ... 19bad88ae9

Okay, now onto the online retailers...
if your going this route always check the forum & tjoos for online coupons to save more $
[*] Coralife F/W T-5 Aqualight Double Strip Light-24" $45.99 + Ship
Coralife is a reputable one..but Mediocre wattage for whats aimed at plants..at least in your tall tank.. with a 20g High I think getting light to the bottom with this might be an issue.
http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCatalo ... 12&offset=
[*] All-Glass Fluorescent Twin Tube Strip Light- 24" (Oak) $53.99 + ship
http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCatalo ... 12&offset=
[*]Coralife Freshwater Aqualight- 24" Power Compact Light-1 x 65W $64.99
Here's a compact flourescent one that would do the trick
http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCatalo ... 12&offset=
[*]24" x 5-1/2" Freshwater; 48 watt, CD-29698 1+$84.99 NOW $67.99
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/p ... atid=16770
and I believe the one below to be the same fixture
42901127 24" FRESHWATER NOVA EXTREME T5HO 1+ $79.99
https://www.petsolutions.com/Nova-Extre ... 4+C33.aspx

Of course if you can find a 24" shop light you could purchase plant bulbs and stick them in it too (wal-mart..lowes..etc).

My personal favorite out of them would be the last one..the 24" Freshwater Nova Extreme t-5HO fixture...they are heck of a bright and energy efficient and the bulbs for them are cheaper than the compact fluorescent ones which can run


Why t5?
>bulbs last longer (roughly 16-24 months)
>high intensity light (bright)
>small size so if diy can fit many in the fixture
>cool running (won't produce excess heat fluc. water temps)

Why Compact Fluorescent?
>bulbs last roughly 10-12 months
>High intensity light (pretty close to the brightness of the t-5)
>can produce excess heat (this is a bad thing)
--------------------------------
About Bulbs
Tubes of 6,700 kelvin look the best in an aquarium as it appears a whiter light under which aquatic plants do very well. 10,000K are even brighter (but in some cases may produce unwanted algae/diatoms). And of course the plant bulbs (referring to the ones that look pink) give a nice look in combination with one of the above bulbs!

 

it will "work" for probably 2 years, but the light it produces will degrade usually in about 10-12 months (at which time you'll wanna swap out the bulbs for new ones...I normally date the endcaps so I know when they need changed).

Glad to hear all is well in plantland once again and glad I could help

Are you dosing the plants (ie. flourish excel - liquid carbon)? or are you just letting them be and seeing if they will need anything first?