1. Welcome to Aquarium Space! We are a friendly online community for aquarium owners all over the world who love their tanks including their fish, reefs, corals, invertebrates and their aquatic livestock. If you haven't joined yet, we invite you to register and join our community!

Screwing up completely(50? gallon)

Discussion in 'Freshwater General Discussion' started by chickadedede, Jul 11, 2011.

Page 1 of 2
  1. chickadedede

    chickadedede Thread Starter New Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Beginning Setup: 50ish gallons

    Stock
    1 Bristlenose Pleco
    3 Red Serpae Tetra
    2 Xray Priscilla Tetra
    1 Black Skirt Tetra (probably)
    1 hopefully Siamese Algae Eater
    1 Longfin Zebra Danio
    3 Cory Cats

    I got wind of a fully set up aquarium with everything, including fish for $50. It was a killer deal, so I jumped on it. We moved the fish (about a 15 minute drive) about two weeks ago. The move probably put a lot of stress on them, but I didn't notice any major problems until a few days ago. One of the Red Serpae Tetras was swimming near vertically. I wasn't quite sure what to do, they'd had a 50-75% water change the previous week, so water quality wasn't likely the issue.

    I should have asked for help then, but I chalked it up to stress and put in some Melafix.

    A few days passed and I noticed that the Red Serpae Tetras were showing signs of fin rot. I'm not sure if it was fin rot or not, two of them looked like they had the same wound and it almost looked like a bite mark. I haven't seen any signs of harassment from any of the fish.

    Two days ago, I noticed that the Zebra Danio was swimming at the top gasping for air. I got up close to the tank and started watching it, and noticed that it was bloated, had protruding scales, and a nasty red wound on its side. That was the first time I had to euthanize a fish.

    Ammonia and nitrites both came back at 0.

    This evening I noticed one of the Red Serpae Tetras looked awful. Color was bad and it was gasping at the bottom of the tank. Catching it wasn't even a challenge. I put it in a hospital tank and decided that it would be a good idea to move the big ugly fake plant that might be hiding more sick/dead fish.

    I figured that the fake plant was the pleco's favorite hiding place. I wasn't really surprised to find it there, but I was surprised when it refused to leave its spot, even when I pulled it out of the water. I moved the plant around some, trying to get the pleco to move, but it just stayed in the same spot. Not knowing whether it was alive or dead, I put the ornament with the pleco attached in with the tetra.

    Ammonia and Nitrites still at 0.

    Is this stress from the move? Is the SAE secretly not an SAE and harassing the other fish? Do I start dumping antibiotics in the tank? I've had a horrible time taking pictures, I'll try to get a few shots for ID at least. I really don't know what to do at this point.

    Eventually I'd like to put in sand and make it a proper planted tank. Right now there's two crypts (I think) and something else, but the lighting is really low. Depending on how the fish do, I'd like to sell some of the tetras to an LFS and get proper schools for the others. Ditto with the Cory Cats.

    Current stock:
    2 Red Serpae Tetra
    2 Xray Priscilla Tetra
    1 Black Skirt Tetra (probably)
    1 hopefully SAE
    3 Cory Cats
     
    chickadedede, Jul 11, 2011
    #1
  2. chickadedede

    chickadedede Thread Starter New Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The pleco is still alive!
     
    chickadedede, Jul 11, 2011
    #2
  3. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    First I'd fully test it with a liquid freshwater test kit (be sure to check the expiration date on it) to make sure those readings are truly accurate.

    How often are you changing the water and in what percent? Might want to think about doing 50% partials over the next few days with a good dechlorinator (I use Seachem Prime)...that in itself may help "heal" some of the issues your having.

    As far as stress of moving them, they would have showed signs right away beginning with color loss and possibly advancing to gasping at the surface, odd swimming behavior, etc.
    Did these fish look healthy when you originally got them? Show any signs of illness?

    Tetras CAN be nippy to begin with and normally do better in larger groups which allow the aggression to be more dispersed, so you could possibly be getting these issues from the fish themselves (moreso compatibility/aggression issue)...Have you noticed anyone "chasing"?

    Also if it's a bristlenose pleco, those guys/gals are really hardy...I breed them. Make sure you have some wood in there for rasping (they REQUIRE wood in their diet) and you can supplement the algae if you don't have it within the tank by using algae wafers.
     
    MOD_Dawn, Jul 11, 2011
    #3
  4. chickadedede

    chickadedede Thread Starter New Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I couldn't find an expiration date on the liquid test kits. One of the test strip kits had expired a month ago, but I hadn't been using it anyway. (I got a liquid test kit and test strips along with the tank and already 1 liquid test kit and strips a few months ago). I think the liquid test kit I bought is probably okay, it didn't look like it had been sitting on the shelf for very long. The liquid test kit I got with the aquarium looked a bit older. I'll avoid using it. I already threw out the expired strips.

    Results:
    Nitrate- 20 ppm
    Nitrite- 0
    Ammonia- 0
    pH-7.3

    From the test strips
    Nitrates- 40 ppm
    Nitrite- 0
    Total Hardness(GH)- 300 ppm
    Chlorine-0
    Total Alkalinity (KH)- 40 ppm
    pH-7.2

    Is there anything else I should test for?

    There was a 50-75% water change when we first moved the tank two weeks ago. I skipped last week's water change since we had family over and I figured the aquarium was lightly stocked enough that the 50-75% change would hold them over for an extra week.

    There's something I forgot about in the first post. The person who had the fish before me had been using a phosphate based pH regulator. I was a bit hesitant to add it, but thought that it would be better to add it in one last time so the water parameters would stay similar to what they had been. I did the same thing with the chlorine/chloramine remover. Normally I use Prime.

    Before we moved the fish, they looked healthy to me. After we moved them they've taken to hiding unless no one's moving in the room. Other than that they looked mostly okay. I may have failed to spot something, the person I got the fish/aquarium from didn't have driftwood for the pleco (I've got some Mopani wood for him), was using phosphate based pH regulators (is that a no-no? I think it is, but I'm not quite sure), and didn't have a particularly good gravel vacuum.

    I've seen a little chasing, but nothing like what my Harlequin Rasboras did. Those guys seem to have calmed down now that they're all together in a decent sized school. That incident leaves me a bit leery of having ANY schooling fish in a group of less than 8, even at purchase. Adding a few at a time just caused me problems.

    I'm going to try to get a pic of the SAE to make sure it's really an SAE. No bets though, I'm having a terrible time photographing fish.
     
    chickadedede, Jul 11, 2011
    #4
  5. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    You've tested already for the main ones (ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates).
    Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate (always when an issue of ANY kind appears)
    Ph (mainly a problem if having severe swings...can cause stress/death)
    Phosphates (I only test when an algae issue appears).
    Gh/Kh I don't even bother with
    Potassium & Iron would be for planted tank when you're getting into the plant chemical additives.
     
    MOD_Dawn, Jul 12, 2011
    #5
  6. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Your definately light on the stocking side, originally a mini-cycle came to mind but according to your tests it appears highly unlikely (and if it was, it's straightened out currently according to your results).
     
    MOD_Dawn, Jul 12, 2011
    #6
  7. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Any idea what the pH was when the other person had the tank up and running?
    I'd scrap all the regulator stuff UNLESS your having pH swings (I hate anything I have to constantly muck with/add when its not really needed).
    I'd stick with the Prime (love the stuff) and your weekly water changes.

    IF you were in the initial phase I'd have told you to double dose the tank with your Prime,notch the heat up a bit, add an airstone and slow acclimate them (just in case of pH/water differences) with the tank lights out . IME that tends to help with stress.
     
    MOD_Dawn, Jul 12, 2011
    #7
  8. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Mopani's a hard wood, you'll want something soft like either driftwood or Kiln Dried Pine.
    If they float you can anchor it to a piece of slate using a galvanized wood screw...or simply weigh it down with a rock that's been vinegar tested. Mine LOVE grazing on the driftwood and can be seen munching it during the day, during the night they are moreso on the glass or scanning the bottom for Hikari algae wafers or french cut green bean, cucumbers, or zuchinni.
     
    MOD_Dawn, Jul 12, 2011
    #8
  9. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    If your lucky enough to have a descent petsmart near ya and there like mine...you'll probably be able to score tetras for $1 when they are on sale. I'm still patiently waiting for them to do the neon tetras for the buck a piece again.
     
    MOD_Dawn, Jul 12, 2011
    #9
  10. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    True Sae's have the solid black line running from the tip of the mouth/nose...straight through the center of the eye...continuing all the way down through the center of the tail.

    Photo showing true sae's..note the solid black line running all the way through.:
    ai51.tinypic.com_2z5ur8i.jpg

    Chinese Algae Eater (this was an adult I had for several years)..note how the line DOESN'T go all the way through his tail:
    ai55.tinypic.com_voagrm.jpg
     
    MOD_Dawn, Jul 12, 2011
    #10
  11. chickadedede

    chickadedede Thread Starter New Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Black on both the SAE and CAE, not brown? I think I may have a flying fox in that case.
     
    chickadedede, Jul 12, 2011
    #11
  12. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    MOD_Dawn, Jul 12, 2011
    #12
  13. HBIC

    HBIC Need help??? That's what we're here for :)

    Messages:
    1,000
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    48
    And normally the SAE will have a black spot on their undersides whereas the CAE will not.
     
    HBIC, Jul 13, 2011
    #13
  14. chickadedede

    chickadedede Thread Starter New Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.ph ... s+&id=1339

    Guess I've got a False SAE. The stripe doesn't extend through the tail fin, but he doesn't have the pattern of a CAE.

    ai.imgur.com_LmWS9.jpg

    ai.imgur.com_HbP50.jpg

    Sorry for the blurriness, this was the best shot I've gotten out of any of my aquarium pics so far.
     
    chickadedede, Jul 13, 2011
    #14
  15. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    yea, looks like flying fox (false)
     
    MOD_Dawn, Jul 13, 2011
    #15
  16. chickadedede

    chickadedede Thread Starter New Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, the Serpae Tetra that wasn't looking so good now appears to have ich on top of everything else. One of the two in the main tank has lost a big chunk of fin since this afternoon. It looks like something took a big bite out of it vs. fin rot. It's kind of in the shape of a bite too.
     
    chickadedede, Jul 14, 2011
    #16
  17. chickadedede

    chickadedede Thread Starter New Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Remodeling starts tomorrow! Goodbye ugly blue gravel, hello Eco Complete and Flourite! I've got some plants I'm going to order as soon as I get my light here and working. I'm still a little lost as to how to stock the tank though.

    I want Pearl Gourami in there for sure, probably 5-6.

    I want Celestial Pearl Danios, but they're expensive. I might get a few of them and breed them and in the meantime find a silvery colored guppy, that way I'll get a bunch of fish quickly for cheap.

    Alternately, I'm looking at Turquoise Danios. They're about as pretty as the Celestial Pearl Danios and are a lot cheaper and more likely to be in stock.

    I'm not sure how many I want to get, but I want a good sized school-at least 10.
     
    chickadedede, Sep 24, 2011
    #17
  18. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    38
    <--waiting for photos of this.
    Pearl gouramis are a very pretty fish and I've yet to find any type of danio at my lfs rather than just the ordinary ones.
    These (Brachydanio Nigrofasciatus) are interesting...not sure where your located and what shipping would be though?
    http://www.forsythaquatics.com/danios-b ... sbora.html

    Edit, oh & they have the pearl gourami's you wanted too!
     
    MOD_Dawn, Sep 24, 2011
    #18
  19. chickadedede

    chickadedede Thread Starter New Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was thinking these guys

    I'm in the midwest. I think I could request stuff at the store I usually go to, but a new LFS just opened up in town and they have both the danios and the gouramis. The guy said he had a buddy who was breeding celestial pearl danios too AND he was getting a bunch of plants in this week.

    I got the gravel in- eco complete + some of the flourite I already had. I didn't mix the two, there's a strip of flourite running through the tank.

    Water's too murky to take pictures right now, but I'm going to be taking lots of pics soon.
     
    chickadedede, Sep 24, 2011
    #19
  20. chickadedede

    chickadedede Thread Starter New Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Old.
    ai.imgur.com_FwHxv.jpg


    New
    ai.imgur.com_7qVa6.jpg

    It's a bit sparse right now, but I don't want to add plants until I know I have a working light so I don't get a repeat of what happened with the 20 gallon (sending a light back twice and waiting more than a month to have something that worked). I'm getting driftwood with the light. The new LFS in town said they'd be getting plants in soon, so I'm excited to go shopping.

    Also now I'm pretty sure I have a 46 bowfront.

    Ultimately, I'm after a decently densely planted tank with Pearl Gourami and a big school of something that isn't neon tetras. Also they have to look good with the Pearls.
     
    chickadedede, Sep 26, 2011
    #20
Page 1 of 2