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Acropora

Discussion in 'Saltwater Fish Forum' started by lostanime, Dec 8, 2008.

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  1. lostanime

    lostanime Thread Starter New Member

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    As of the last 15 minutes:
    ammonia - undetectable
    nitrites - undetectable
    nitrates - undetectable
    phosphates - undetectable
    8.3-8.6 dKH (I had no idea I already had this kit and was testing... little high... went through logs and it's always been this high)
    8.1 PH (little low... meter's acting a little jumpy-will replace or get alternate test before taking action)
    1230ppm mag
    315ppm calc

    I'm still confused re: why I shouldn't be dosing calcium when the levels aren't in the 400-450 range . . .

    Also - added restrictors because without, there were cylindrical "tubes" of high water flow that sliced through otherwise unmoving water... when I originally set up tank, you could see a 2" sized circle of algae getting directly blown on from a spout on the opposite end of the tank! I added the diverters to try to spread water movement more evenly through tank (and to counter the lower flow capacity, I removed the 90% L-bend at top of return and added a T and additional spouts)... the only reason I have a circular end on the left is the shop ran out of spreading diverters when I first picked the parts up and I haven't bothered taking it apart again :)

    My intentions with the change was to make lots of water move some, instead of a small long jet of water move fast... am I mis-guided somehow with this?
     
    lostanime, Dec 10, 2008
    #41
  2. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    I'm really beginning to question your test kit. How old is it ?
     
    Anthony, Dec 10, 2008
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  3. genettico

    genettico New Member

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    I just made a huge comment on the article link you provided on another thread related to what you are talking about here related to flow! Your pumps are NOT strong enough to be restricted to create high velocity/high volume water movement low turnover rates and the restrictions you are putting to the ends is just making your turnover and your flow rate low! for such a big aquarium! If you had a 75 to 90g tank then your concept would work as intended but for your aquarium you are hurting your own cause.

    If you want to move LOTS of water by volume you need lots of water by volume, just think about it this way. Water is un-compressable, and because of this, if you push a large volume of water, the inertia and the fact that water cannot be compressed will cause the same volume of water to "displace" or move! If you only push a little you will only move a little! If you want more overall "movement" you need volume to back it up! your idea of using high pressure would work if your pumps were strong enough for the idea, but they are not!

    The dynamics to calcium, alkalinity and ph are very complex. It will take me a long VERY long thread to explain it! Suffice it to say that you need to create a balance in between the 3 to be able to provide available calcium carbonate. You can have your calcium higher even into the 500ppm, as long as your alkalinity is low! Im gonna try to give you an example that maybe could help you understand this dynamics.

    next post...
     
    genettico, Dec 10, 2008
    #43
  4. genettico

    genettico New Member

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    Lets say you have a plastic cup that allows you to put 10 marbles in it!
    Now think of the alkalinity and the calcium as the marbles. You can only put 10 total in your cup before you "spill" marbles out of your tank. So... let's say you have 7 alkalinity marbles in your cup and then you wanna put 6 more of calcium. hmmmm.... you can get 3 calcium in there, but you will spill the other 3 out! THEY WONT FIT!( you just precipitated your calcium out of solution and killed everything in your tank with whats called a snowstorm) lol! Now think of the Ph as you hoding the cup in your hand and tilting it one way or the other.... If you tilt it too much you might drop the marbles.... even if you have only 5 or 6 in there.

    So... this is a silly sample but it works... lol!

    So either high calcium, low alk, or low calcium high alkalinity you cant have high of both! So how do you determine how to make calcium marbles available? lol! Well... I didnt tell you the alkalinity marbles weigh more so you dont need as many of them and they will drop to the bottom of the cup and the lighter calcium marbles stay at the top. If you tilt it a little bit back and forth (ph) so then you make the calcium marbles easier to reach than the alkalinity ones! lol!

    Now with numbers:
    Raise your calcium to about 400 410ppm.
    Raise your alkalinity to about 4meg/l or just about 10.5dkh 11dkh. Leave your ph to what it is. This is the equivalent to putting 6.5 marbles worth of calcium and leaving a good base of about 3.5 alk marbles. the Alk Marbles help stabilize the PH (you tilting and resist your movement) and allow for enough calcium to be used but not to be depleted! ;)
     
    genettico, Dec 10, 2008
    #44
  5. lostanime

    lostanime Thread Starter New Member

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    This example actually really simplifies at least in my mind an otherwise complex process (alk/calc competing for a limited total amount of saturation in water, which is determined by ph... right?)

    my next question is - if my PH is right, and I cant get my calc to go up, that would suggest i'm at saturation... how can I add both alk and calc if their ppm are inversely related?

    and anthony - my kits for ph, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and mag are testing identical to fishworld's test results (my first reaction to a weird test result is to get another round of test results from a different source)... and I just replaced my calc and mag test kits yesterday with sets that came with control solutions so i was able to confirm they are accurate... I wish it was as simple as an expired or defunk test kit :cry:
     
    lostanime, Dec 10, 2008
    #45
  6. genettico

    genettico New Member

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    I already answered this in the "now with numbers" POST!
     
    genettico, Dec 10, 2008
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  7. lostanime

    lostanime Thread Starter New Member

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    I'm just stuck on the first step of that... I've dumped over $80 in marin pro calc in the tank over the last month, and I've raised my calc levels over that month from 290 to 315... so meeting that first step of reaching 400 is going to be rather challenging :eek:

    Is there anything other then alk/ph that impacts solubility of calc?
     
    lostanime, Dec 10, 2008
    #47
  8. genettico

    genettico New Member

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    Use kalkwasser. Is cheap fast and if used right very safe! Ill give you a little tip: get an 8 ounce cup and mix about 3 spoon fulls of kalkwasser. Mix it pretty good and then add it slowly to overflow boxes! do this every day just before lights come on! This will buffer water, add calcium, raise your ph and should take you a fraction of the time and money
     
    genettico, Dec 11, 2008
    #48
  9. genettico

    genettico New Member

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    I should mention: Mix the kalkwasser with RO water.It should take you about 30 seconds or so to empty the 8 ounce glass into the 2 overflow boxes!
     
    genettico, Dec 11, 2008
    #49
  10. lostanime

    lostanime Thread Starter New Member

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    Please correct everything I'm wrong about regarding this (it's certainly not familiar grounds- I have no experience with kalk at all!!)

    ... doesn't kalk have a PH of 12-14? If so, since my PH is nearly where it should be already... wouldn't this cause a spike?

    Also - I've noticed some articles specifically mention mixing vinegar with kalk to substitute for not enough CO2 being in the mixing water causing the chain reaction not to efficiently complete, and that it also counters the PH. With that being said - I am a geek not a chemist and I have NO idea whether this has validity, and what other complications can arise from adding to aquariums (or what chemicals are created/removed and what reactions would occur with kalk+ vinegar)... is this something you do/know of/have warnings or recommendations on?

    Thanks yet again for all the highly detailed responses and your patience :)
     
    lostanime, Dec 11, 2008
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  11. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    I use reef crystals and a that gets my calcium up around 350ish. I put in a cap full of Seachem Reef Calcium every few weeks and I'm good to go.
     
    Anthony, Dec 11, 2008
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  12. KSul0132

    KSul0132 New Member

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    could you post some pics of the 100 gallon with 145 fish sounds very nice thanks man
     
    KSul0132, Dec 11, 2008
    #52
  13. lostanime

    lostanime Thread Starter New Member

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    Btw re: moving crabs to fuge - they are getting big and through the evening the only thing i see the crabs eating are copepods... although i seeded the tank with pods 6 months prior to acquiring mandarin, i dont want him having significant competition for them. I originally set up with about 150 snails & 80 crabs, but for the first 8 months I had the tank I kept a cortez stingray in... which ate most of the crabs and almost every other fish I tossed in there, so I eventually exchanged him for my first Angel. I'm also much more fond of snails, and am slowly adding more and more (I lost around 120 or so snails, blenny and a pair of sleeper gobies when the pump to my skimmer malfunctioned and started dumping electricity in my tank... i've been hesitant to just buy a bunch more to drop in)
     
    lostanime, Dec 11, 2008
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  14. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    Anthony, Dec 11, 2008
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  15. genettico

    genettico New Member

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    I did! Photography section! ;)
     
    genettico, Dec 11, 2008
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  16. lostanime

    lostanime Thread Starter New Member

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    Were you referring to a kit other then the calc or the mag one?
     
    lostanime, Dec 11, 2008
    #56
  17. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    Missed that, sorry...

    The reason I say that is because there's no way your nitrates are 0.
     
    Anthony, Dec 11, 2008
    #57
  18. genettico

    genettico New Member

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    They dont have to be 0 for the test kit to not be good! Anthony is right though they will never be 0! They are just NON-detectable by most commercial test kits available! They are just not sensitive enough, but they are good enough, for our applications! ;)
     
    genettico, Dec 11, 2008
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  19. genettico

    genettico New Member

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    No prob. We are all here to learn and to help!
    A concentrated solution of kalkwasser on natural seawater before precipitation of calcium carbonate to a SG of about 1.024 at 78degrees f, produces a ph of about 10.7! With that been said, you can add kalkwasser, the way I have mentioned to you before and create a spike that will last a few minutes since the alk will resist the change on the ph. Everytime you add liquid calcium 2 part you do the same, but again, the ph drops due to the alk!
    This Is why you add the additives in the morning and NOT in the afternoon when the ph is at its highest.
    Lol, Yes you could add vinegar to the kalk, I wouldnt, just because the raise on the ph is not significant on time and duration for anybody to worry about!
     
    genettico, Dec 11, 2008
    #59
  20. lostanime

    lostanime Thread Starter New Member

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    Yup hense my "undetectable" comments on latest results... assuming the test is right (which two LFS have tested for nitrates in my water combined 10 times with same results over the last month...)

    It definitely doesn't mean i dont have nitrates, it just means they are being consumed at the same rate they are being introduced in the tank. And since that's the whole point for my adding a refugium with deep sand bed (for denitrification) and various macro-algae as a nitrate/phosphate export... it's actually very plausible. That, and the tank is ridiculously understocked [dancing]
     
    lostanime, Dec 11, 2008
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