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Discus Plague

Discussion in 'Fish Diseases & Cures' started by LemonDiscus, Dec 6, 2008.

  1. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Angelfish & Discus with Ich (Treatment Suggestions)
    So I added those 2 Angels (the black marbles) and apparently they were stressed and stressed all my other fish.

    Today I woke up to ALL of my Discus coated in Ich!!!

    Water Parameters:
    PH - 6.5
    Ammonia - 0
    Nitrites - 0
    Temp - 84
    Tank Size - 125gallons

    What I did:
    1- I treated with Malachite Green to dosage to treat the Ich directly
    2- I treated with a 1/2 dose of Fu-Ba-Fix the link to the product is here

    I treated with Fu Ba Fix to help prevent bacterial infections from setting in.

    Future (next week): Planning daily 20 gallon water changes (about 18%) with re-treating daily for 7-10 days.

    Question is does any one have any other ideas or thoughts on my situation?
     
  2. BobV

    BobV Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Aren't discus supposed to be kept at like 84 - 86 degrees? That temp should kill off the ich parasite without meds. ( not so much and answer as a question )
     
  3. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Bump the temp up 2-3 degrees.
     
  4. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    I had to get another heater to do that (just got it today) so I have not been able to get my heat up past 83 with the 2 heaters I have had. Now I am in the process of raising the temp. I also dropped out 4 of my lights to help keep stress down.

    I have all the Discus eating (1 was not too sure earlier about eating and only had a few bites) but now all of them are eating like pigs and the white has diminished some in the past few hours (I think I caught it in the worst of the parasite cycle)

    Hopefully in a few hours I will be at 86-87 degrees!

    Oh, and BobV, the temp can be as low as 78 with Discus and as high as 94. the 84-86 is the recommended range to stop Ich (again I did not have enough heaters)
     
  5. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Oh also, if you have any fish food with garlic in it, or a garlic additive like Kent's Garlic XTreme that will help boost their immune systems.
     
  6. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    And after much research the specific form of Ich that I have is Velvet. My fish dont really have "white spots" but more of a "white velvety coating". I think it will be fine as the good thing with Discus is their preference to heat and Velvet, Ich and Costia dont like heat it makes a quick way to treat (if you can get your water that hot)

    I will tell you what I will NEVER let my tank go below 86 again now that I got a new heater!!!
     
  7. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    No but I have garlic!! I can soak their frozen food in the garlic juice for a while, I forgot about the garlic treatment. Thanks for reminding me, I got so tied up with the basics :D
     
  8. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    I'm pretty sure velvet isn't a form of ich. I haven't had any experience with freshwater velvet but the temp should work the same way.
     
  9. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Yeah it should, I read it is not "really" a form of ich, but it follows the same life-cycle but a bit faster in movement than ich and has the potential of being more fatal than Ich. Ich is on the fish 3-4 days and then falls of where Velvet is 2-3 days and more extreme of a coating. They both die in heat and with Malachite Green treatment. Big difference is velvet is a protozoan parasite and ich is a protazoan. BUT they both have the same life-cycle of attaching to the host, falling off with offspring, offspring goes free-swimming and looks for a new host (more of them this time).
     
  10. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Yep, that's basically what I had read.
     
  11. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Oh and one other thing about Velvet that I read. Unlike Ich it IS treatable is ALL stages of its life-cycle UNLIKE ich which is only able to be killed at free-swimming stage. That may explain why after a few hours of the Malachite Green treatment the symptoms diminished by about 40%.

    I just hope that the Velvet did not attack the gills as that is what usually kills fish infected with Velvet. Unlike Ich, Velvet attacks ANYTHING that it can attach to, the gills, the fins, the body and my Discus DO have it on their fins and body, but due to the tiny size of the mouth on a Discus and the little they ever open their gills I can not see if they have in on the gills.

    Just thought I would add those points for others knowledge in the future about the difference between the 2 parasites. I never knew there was a difference until today having to find the difference as I have NEVER really had much experience with Ich or Velvet (my tanks are usually too hot)
     
  12. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Well, I did a few more things today.

    I changed the water about 45% (lots of buckets up and down the steps as I use the bathtub to fill the buckets)

    I also re-treated with the Malachite Green

    Temperature is now at 86 degrees.

    I added salt to the tank as 2 of the Discus were breathing kind of fast and 2 others are REALLY dark.

    I dont know what treatment is calming the fish, but a few hours later and they seem a bit less stressed.

    The velvet is showing less and less on them from me noticing it yesterday and really does not seem to be that bad on the fish anymore. Luckily the Discus are all still eating and got back some of their personality as they were all clustered together and now they are back to bickering and nipping each other (how they spend most of the day). Also ALL of them are still eating well again!

    I removed my lid to make the water-changes easier and went at other things such as pruning and re-planting the tops of my stargrass, removing algae from the tank, re-arranging the plants some, cleaning under my rocks/driftwood and a few other things. So all-in-all I did manage to get a lot done because of this.

    I hope posting this does not jinx me!
     
  13. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Hopefully they'll continue to improve and you won't lose any.
     
  14. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Agreed, and thank you.... knock on wood I have not lost one yet!

    Next time.... Quarantine, Quarantine, Quarantine!!! I have read much about doing that and did a really good job with doing it for a while and now.... well, I just am out of tank space to do it like I need to, (means maybe I guess I should have never got those 2 new ones, but they were SO PRETTY!!!!)

    Could have, and still may be the most expensive 2 angels anyone has paid for!!!!
    (about $1,000 in Discus) plus the 15 I paid for the 2 angels!
     
  15. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    I'll admit, normally I normally don't quarantine.
     
  16. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Well, been reading more and I think I made my 2nd mis-diagnosis on this illness..... More and more reading over the past 2 days and I think my head is spinning :roll:

    Well, now I have a feeling it is not velvet as it is really more white than tan! Also I described it to another fish-keeper I know and he did not know, but I used the description "It looks like the fish has the same fungus on it that attacks dead fish eggs". That discription I made caused me to re-think......

    My new "guess" is Columnaris (Cotton-Wool Disease) which after re-treating with Malachite Green yesterday, showed no signs of improvement today. Not a huge thing but I DID notice a bit of an improvement after day one when I treated with Malachite Green AND Fu-Ba-Fix! Fu-Ba-Fix was probably what did it day 1 of treatment and NOT the Malachite Green!

    If this is an accurate guess it does paint a picture of what happened with the 1st day of treatment and nothing on the 2nd as Malachite Green DOES NOT treat Cotton Wool!

    I can not wait to get home as I have a REALLY BAD feeling while I am here at work today!!!! :oops: I just hope they keep pulling through!!!
     
  17. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Even more reading and it still does not sound right!!! I DONT KNOW what this crap is!!!! I will put some pictures up this evening when I get home!
     
  18. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Okay, I was just going to ask if you could post a picture of it. Any velvet I've seen has been white, not tan. It basically looks like their skin is falling off.
     
  19. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Ok, well here they are.... they have improved as it looked like yesterday (and this morning) that the white was in layers on the fish.

    The Red Sunsets are harder to see it on but I took photos to show it is white as if it were golden, tan or any other color spots you would not see them as well on them.

    The 2 blues are the ones that show the most. Due to them turning black now the white shows up more.
    sick1.jpg sick2.jpg sick3.jpg
     
  20. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

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    Re: Ich in my display tank

    Okay so from those pictures I'd say it's not ich or velvet. It almost looks like a fungus to me. I'm going to take a stab and say it's Chilodonella.