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LemonDiscus: 20 Gallon Discus Breeder

Discussion in 'Freshwater Aquariums & Fish Photos' started by LemonDiscus, Sep 16, 2009.

  1. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    lol Sounds like fun!
     
  2. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Well... I just got home and checked in on them... they are doing well! He is holding his ground better and she really isnt even hitting him anymore... she kind of just lunges at him...

    His color looks better and he is eating fine... This may have worked... Still have to see a product before I know if it worked or not....
     
  3. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

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    Haha, apparently like most women she just gave up on him. LMdao!
    Sorry..couldn't resist :D

    Maybe he realizes that he is the offical venting post and has to just stay there and take it like a man...umm..err..a fish? Hehe ;)
     
  4. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    probably :)

    The only time she seems to be vicious is when he is trying to eat but it doesnt stop him... he keeps grazing for food...

    Both of their tubes are out so who knows... When I bought him he did not have his tube out but he does now... maybe he knows what Im doing... lol... maybe she does too and she does not like the "force marriage" :) ..... yet....
     
  5. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

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    Didn't I tell you before that you have to "Talk" to the fish and explain it all to them (birds and bees)...maybe they just don't understand.
    Pull up a youtube vid for them. Haha!

    Hopefully you'll get lucky out of at least one pair of them...how many are you up to now these days (discus count)?
     
  6. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    More down to... I have 10... 3 pairs and 4 "misfits".

    1 pair blue turquoise
    1 pair marlboro red
    1 pair wild heckels (I have NO hope they will actually spawn)
    1 single wild heckel
    3 leftover marlboro reds (I think all 3 are males)

    I want these blue turquoises to spawn so I can stock my 125 over again... thats the plan and if the red ones spawn they will become trades so I can buy my 100 Cardinal Tetras...

    125 Stocking Plan
    15-25 Blue Turquoise Discus
    100 Cardinal Tetras
    10-15 Corydoras

    Yes I know that is WAY overstocked BUT I change my water so much it wont matter... And I plan on my 55 going bare bottom (right now it has some "misfits" in it but I will TEMPORARILY move them to my 125... bring my 55 downstairs to make water changes easier and take the sand out of it so I will have 55 gallons of only glass and fish til they get big enough for my display.... Then I will do a HUGE sell-off of my Discus...

    That is the "ideal" plan but I dont have but so much hope in it working out at the moment....
     
  7. cooltow1

    cooltow1 Member

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    Have that positive attitude we all know that you're going to get this all worked out and become the next Jack Whatey of the Discus world


    Rick
     
  8. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Yeah... That would be nice... :)

    If I can get those Heckel Discus to breed I probably would be.... Speaking of them I actually think they are horizontal spawners and NOT vertical spawners like most Discus... not sure though... my Heckels I divided off in my 125 and they have been pecking at a rock that is laid flat across the substrate and NOT at the one standing up vertically... I will have to take a photo for you to see what I mean but... ideas... lol
     
  9. cooltow1

    cooltow1 Member

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    I had a pair of angels that would do that they spawned on the bare bottom tank several times ever with all sorts other things in the tank.

    Rick
     
  10. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    hmmm interesting.... so it IS a strong possibility... USUALLY Angels are vertical spawners...
     
  11. cooltow1

    cooltow1 Member

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    In general angels spawn vertically or at least semi vertically but like discus they have a favorite spot that they go back to time and again. The thing with discus is in the wild you have 3 very distinguishable population that we know of. And DNA has determined that these population are very distant cousins that spit when the Amazon flowed to both the east and west coast

    Any animal with Brown Discus(Symphyosodon haraldi) blood or were Heckel Discus and Browns overlap are subject to be rock spawner's due to natural hybridization
    Brown Discus(Symphyosodon haraldi) in the west regions of the river are all rock spawners Today however, from study results published in the Journal of Fish Biology(2008?) three species are acknowledged and there are no subspecies.
    Which we know is bull!

    Rick
     
  12. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    The data and information on discus is quite jumbled up and often wrong. Strains are identified by whatever the breeders want to call them (I could "make" a strain called a Red Fumancho and that is what it will be) and especially with the Heckel species there is VERY LITTLE information about much of anything and even the environment information and water parameter data is VERY hard to find as only a few people have tested water conductivity, ph, temp and everything else over a 12 month period... I have found a monthly chart of SOME of this info over the course of a year....

    Also Heckels come mostly from near the mouth of the Rio Negro and live in the deeper parts of the river that can be several feet deep. Being a blackwater environment the water would be VERY murky and almost no light getting down there. Therefore trees and plants would not exist at all at those depths. Which would make sense that they would be bottom spawners much like Oscars and other SAs like them...

    Symphyosodon haraldi (brown) and Symphyosodon aequifasciatus (green) are MUCH more common and live in both the Whitewater Amazon River and several Blackwater rivers along the Amazon. Even some are lake dwellers... these often live in shallower regions than the Symphyosodon discus (Heckel).

    Most bio-tope attempts at a discus tank are really inaccurate because there is no plantlife or VERY LITTLE and in MOST there is a LOT of roots... not much in the way of rocks... Cardinal tetras, even though they are from the EXACT same locations, they dont live in the deeper waters that discus do and are collected near the shores where the discus rarely ever venture near the shores...

    The Heckel though has never been documented breeding in captivity... What makes these so different than the rest? It is not believed to be impossible and there HAVE BEEN F1 Heckels on the market for sale. The breeding projects however were never documented either with data or even more better, any photos.

    Some believe that PH needs to be at an unstable low as the Rio Negro spends much of its year at a PH of 4.5 at the common collection point of the Heckel. Water temps fluctuate from 82-89 degrees over the course of the year and day and night....

    The main area of debate and argument seems to be whether these extreme water parameters are required to produce a spawn... I personally think like any of the other "species" in the Symphyosodon genus that exact water conditions are not required... there is another piece of the puzzle missing... something that our husbandry is not doing.... what that missing thing is, its speculation on my part at the moment....

    Photo-sensitivity perhaps? Cardinal Tetras are..... Water pressure... we cant replicate a 20 foot deep water pressure without having a tank that deep... maybe it is the parameters.... maybe a mix of all of it... all I know is there HAS to be a way to make it work... after all, life ALWAYS finds a way!

    Sorry to deviate on my own thread regarding domesticated Discus onto a topic about wild discus... heckels at that.... I so hate that name Heckel... even though that is the gentlemans name that found them... it makes me think they are sitting there "heckling" me! lol.... which they do.... :) :confused:
     
  13. cooltow1

    cooltow1 Member

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    Most of the problem with Symphysodon is much of the info is very very old(Heckel, 1840) and is simply out of date there are many areas of the river basin that has never been studied in depth.


    Rick
     
  14. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    The male is still alive and kicking... he still eats and has color... seems to be working some and I do expect some aggression because that is quite normal in pairs of discus and angelfish...

    Maybe in a week or 2... maybe...
     
  15. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    He is still a bit abused... but still eats and has color... I still wish he would just stand up for himself already!
     
  16. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    I moved these 2 to the 55 with one red female in the tank... I got tired of seeing him getting beat up needlessly and thought I would have these 2 with another one to take some of her aggression...
     
  17. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    I ended this pair of Blues.... I placed them into the 125 display with the wilds. I now have my display tank back in operation. I also ended the pair of Heckels as they were doing nothing also.
     
  18. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    2 Marlboro Red's spawn that surprised me... I didnt think this would be a pair...

    They spawned on the heater and the upper half of eggs is no good but the lower half still is... This is day 2.5 so they should be going to wiggler tonight. This has the male that kept eating eggs... maybe with the new female this wont happen... Because I dont know this pair yet I dont know how the first few spawns will work here.
    20Eggs.jpg
     
  19. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

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    Looks like you have your hands full...or your fish do at least. Lol!
     
  20. LemonDiscus

    LemonDiscus Thread Starter Active Member

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    Yup... I would say I do! :)

    I got to prep the "nursery" soon! (my 55 gallon tank)