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odd swimming pattern

Discussion in 'Fish Diseases & Cures' started by CharlieB, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. CharlieB

    CharlieB Thread Starter New Member

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    hi,

    not sure if this is an illness but hoping for clarification.

    i noticed this morning some of my fish (neon & sepae tetra) are swimming along with their nose down tail up in a zig-zag pattern something like this \|\|\|\|\

    was wondering if this is ok?

    5 Gal tank
    approx. 24C
    water change 5-7days
    not sure of levels, presumed normal.

    sorry if im being an idiot, but am fairly new to the hobby :D
     
  2. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

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    Without your actual readings it is extremely difficult to diagnose the possible issue. It's okay being new to the hobby, we were all there one day!

    Now for the bombardment of questions :)

    1) Did you fully cycle the tank? IF so, what method did you use?

    2) You need to get a freshwater test kit (API is good...be sure to get liquid and NOT test strips being the strips aren't fully accurate). :!:

    3) Did you/Are you adding a chlorine & baddies remover BEFORE adding water to the tank(Including when you do changes & add top off water) :confused:
    -->I highly recommend using PRIME everytime you add water if you aren't already using it.

    4)How many do you have in that 5 gallon (list all inhabitants) :confused:

    5)How much water are you changing every 5-7 days :confused:

    6)What type of food are you feeding & how often are you feeding it (amount) :confused:

    7)What kind of filtration are you running in it (gph) & are you running any aeration :confused: :confused: <Note to self...Wondering if it's possible that the filtration or aeration is too strong and pushing them downwards>

    8) Your temperature converts to about 75.2F, I'd bump it a bit to 77F or 78F (which would be a minimum of 25C)...do this slowly/gradually

    9)What do you have in the tank (anything that can/is leeching) :confused:
    (Ie. decor, substrate, plants, etc)

    -> Some of this may be helpful for you ->
    Small Planted Tank Setup Guide

    Just a little FYI, the smaller tanks are much harder to maintain since Smaller volumes of water are HARDER to keep stable. Plus a tank that size is basically a betta tank or single fish tank. Granted their are a few that you can put 2 in...but not many!

    Also note that in a tank that size you don't want to mix males and females...you'll have no room for the offspring and when they give birth it will throw that tank for a whirl of nastiness!

    I moreso recommend males, since most females are almost ALWAYS sold pregnant already!
     
  3. CharlieB

    CharlieB Thread Starter New Member

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    oh dear you got me worried with all those qu's!

    1) erm, the tank has been running since early January, and had no fish for a couple weeks, then only a couple for a month, then the rest came after the LFS did a water test for me.

    2) i've only got the strip test kit - reports normal but i guess that doesnt mean much if they're not accurate

    3) i add a few drops of blue stuff to the water when i do a water change to dechlorinate it, i think its called Aquasafe? comes in a yellow bottle

    4)In my tank there are:
    2 serpae tetra
    1 black phantom
    2 neon tetra
    2 endlers
    1 mystery fish (smaller than the others, he was a stowaway - in fact he might be my fav :) )

    5)change about 30-40% water every 5-7 days

    6) feed them once a day in the morning, couple of flakes of Aquarian, crumbled up

    7)runs a sponge filter and rena air 100 air pump

    8)right 25C will do

    9)Theres aplastic plant and a plasctic vase in there, both aquarium ornaments bought in Jan when i set up the tank.

    The tank has been going since Jan, and the fish all seem fine apart from the random up/down zig zag swimming which i only noticed today.

    could it be they were just playing around? oh dear now im worried, i hope i dont go home from work tonight to find casualties... :(
     
  4. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

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    1) I presume your cycled by now, but I believe your tank is going through mini cycles more than likely with such large water changes
    2) you know it's coming...get a liquid test kit
    3)If you can, I'd go with Prime...works instantly. Used AquaSafe Before and don't recall it being blue? Maybe they changed it since...but I know from using it in the past that it doesn't work as fast as the prime.
    4)Your highly overstocked there buddy! WOW WOW WOW Highly overstocked.
    A 5g should have 1...2 max small fish. And by small I mean reaching only about 2.5" or 3" for 1...and smaller for 2.
    --Serpae's max about 1.6" and are a schooling fish...another words 3 or more (But in your tank size that would be a no-no)
    ---Black Phantom max about 1.75" and is also a schooling fish (seeing you have the 2 serpaes I'm betting he may be schooling with them quite possibly).
    ----Neon Tetras max 1.5" and again are a schooling fish.
    -----Endlers max 1" and I hope they are both males for your sake!
    ------Mystery Fish? Never heard of that (ghost fish I have)??
    -->Theirs a old rule of thumb that isn't completely accurate, however will give you somewhat of an idea IF you additionaly research your species that says no more than 1" of ADULT size fish per gallon...assuming you have proper filtration.
    *Depending on what that phantom is I would say you could probably slide with a 10g. (If you go that route & you test your water and it's safe you could add another serpae for 3, add another phantom for 2, add 1 or 2 more neons for 3 or 5, toss the 2 endlers in, and the mystery fish (depending on what size it is and its aggressiveness level).
    5)Too high of a water change will cause nasty chemistry swings (moreso in smaller tanks such as yours). Do no more than 15% once a week. 2.83L or about 1 gallon of water. Be sure to treat (Dechlorinate) your existing water before adding new and try to keep it as close as possible to the water you already have in the tank.
    6) don't crumble your flakes (increases phosphates from what I've been told?) for a tank that size and your stocking you can easily get away with 2 whole flakes probably twice a day (morning and bedtime). Small Pinch..no more than they can eat within a few seconds (10-15).
    7)Sponge filter is good, be sure to squeeze it out in the tank before doing partials

    *It may be possible that it was a stress reaction that caused the erratic swimming pattern, I tend to think it may be due to overstocking...too large of water changes which are causing instability in your readings...but without actual water chemistry readings the possiblities can go on forever.

    >The moreso urgent readings would be the Ammonia (which should always be o)
    >Nitrites (which should always be o)
    >Nitrates (which should be as low as you can possibly get them 20-40ppm range)
    >PH (others will go back and forth on this one, I say as long as it's stable for what your stocking...NOT fluctuating!) 7.0 is typically a great range for community setups
    >Gh 5-12ppm for community tanks (stability moreso the key)
    >Kh 7-12ppm for community tanks (stability moreso the key)
    *By now you are probably getting that it's more important to have stable readings rather than pinpoint on readings, fluctuations is what causes all the nastys to come about (ie. stress, ich, loss of color, death, erratic swim patterns, etc).

    The only thing I can re-utter of which is of utmost importance is the key factor of needing a test kit. The kit will easily last you over a year! That or take your water to your local lfs and have them test it for you?

    Best of Luck! Please, let me know if I can be of further assistance...always glad to help when and IF I can.

    ~Dawn
     
  5. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

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    how are the neons and serpaes doing?
     
  6. CharlieB

    CharlieB Thread Starter New Member

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    Hi Dawn,
    thank you for your assistance and useful tips re: looking after my tank. I'm sorry for the really long delay in posting a response but i just havent been online in ages, been really busy.
    anyway the fish all calmed down a day or so after i posted originally and started swimming normally, so thats good.
    now a confession, to my eternal shame i let the tank go too long without cleaning or water change. when i eventually cleaned it out, one of my neons perished the following day. he was the weakest i think, having never fully recovered from having his tail chewed off by the other fish on arrival. it was a sharp lesson for me, and i have vowed to take my responsibilities more seriously regarding the tank.
    the other bit of news is that my 'mystery fish' has now grown to nearly full size and his colours have come through, turns out he's an Endler, and is schooling with the other Endlers.
    I appreciate that the tank is overstocked, although it would seem pretty empty/lonely with only 1 or 2 in there IMHO and i am hoping to get my big tank (29gal) up and running very soon
     
  7. MOD_Dawn

    MOD_Dawn Active Member

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    O your welcome, Thanks for the update. Small tanks that are overstocked to begin with & not getting frequent regular water changes will defin. bite ya in the butt. Lol.

    Glad to hear you realized it though & are doing something about it now.

    Endlers are pretty...my waters too acidic for them.

    <--upgrading is a good thing, congrats on the bigger tank. You'll have to post some picts once you get it up and running!