1. Welcome to Aquarium Space! We are a friendly online community for aquarium owners all over the world who love their tanks including their fish, reefs, corals, invertebrates and their aquatic livestock. If you haven't joined yet, we invite you to register and join our community!

popeye on a german blue ram Pop-Eye

Discussion in 'Fish Diseases & Cures' started by absntmnd69, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. absntmnd69

    absntmnd69 Thread Starter New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i have a german blue ram that ive had for about 6 months now and has been healthy. i was doing a water change today and saw his eye looking like it was going to pop out. after doing some research with my brother (jrow8162) and my lfs i found out it was popeye. tim at fin & feather II (lfs) said treat with maracyn 2 and see what happens. now for the kicker, i traded my two 8 in angelfish for two discus and im afraid of losing them due no health guarantee. what can i do to avoid losing them and if possible save my ram. ive already dosed once and pulled out the carbon.

    the pertinent info:
    pH- 6.8
    Ammonia Level- 0 ppm
    Nitrite Level- 0 ppm
    Nitrate Level- 5 ppm
    Water Temperature- 86-87F
    Tank Size- 37 tall
    How Often You Do Water Changes And What Percent You Change- before discus 1/week 50% now 2-3/week 50%
    How Long Has The Tank Been Running- 7 months
     
  2. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Normally you'll want to treat with maracyn AND maracyn 2. That will treat both gram positive and gram negative bacterial infections. Unless you have a tank you can put those Discus in (A cycled tank) then there isn't much you can do.
     
  3. absntmnd69

    absntmnd69 Thread Starter New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i have a 10g that i can put my discus in but it has two balloon rams and three danios in it. plus i just put the discus in there on saturday so i dont want to move them again in case they are not fully acclimated. im sorry im a newb to all of this gram positive and negative illnesses. can you explain this?
     
  4. Anthony

    Anthony Active Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Yeah, with the Discus stress alone could kill them or cause them to get ill which can kill them.

    From Wiki:

    Gram-positive bacteria are those that are stained dark blue or violet by Gram staining. This is in contrast to Gram-negative bacteria, which cannot retain the crystal violet stain, instead taking up the counterstain (safranin or fuchsin) and appearing red or pink. Gram-positive organisms are able to retain the crystal violet stain because of the high amount of peptidoglycan in the cell wall. Gram-positive cell walls typically lack the outer membrane found in Gram-negative bacteria.

    When treated as a clade, the term "Posibacteria" is sometimes used.

    Gram-negative bacteria are those bacteria that do not retain crystal violet dye in the Gram staining protocol.[1] In a Gram stain test, a counterstain (commonly safranin) is added after the crystal violet, coloring all Gram-negative bacteria with a red or pink color. The test itself is useful in classifying two distinct types of bacteria based on the structural differences of their cell walls. On the other hand, Gram-positive bacteria will retain the crystal violet dye when washed in a decolorizing solution.

    The pathogenic capability of Gram-negative bacteria is often associated with certain components of Gram-negative cell walls, in particular the lipopolysaccharide (also known as LPS or endotoxin) layer.[1] In humans, LPS triggers an innate immune response characterized by cytokine production and immune system activation. Inflammation is a common result of cytokine (from the Greek cyto, cell and kinesis, movement) production, which can also produce host toxicity.

    When treated as a clade, the term "negibacteria" is sometimes used.
     
  5. jrow8162

    jrow8162 Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Alex, at this point I would leave the Discus where they are. Just keep an eye on their behavior. If they start swimming to the top and sinking down or laying on their sides then you should worry. They looked fine when I saw them yesterday. They have already been exposed to the bacteria in your tank so its not a bad idea to treat them with the other fish. Plus you just got them on Friday so another move may really stress them out. Especially moving them to a smaller tank.
     
  6. WhiteGloveAquatics

    WhiteGloveAquatics New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Cool, a symptom showed up, the bad part is, Popeye is not a disease its a symptom of a more underlying kidney problem.

    I just lost me female EB ram to it. But popeye is a gram negative issue.

    here ya go
    Treatment
    The affected fish should be immediately taken out to be separately treated. It is difficult to specify a specific treatment unless the main cause is definitely known. Large daily water changes should help, if not Epsom salts has been used with good results to draw the fluid out. One tablespoon per 5 gallons of water for at least three days, longer if necessary. Epsom salts isn't really salt (sodium chloride) it is Magnesium Sulfate. If water quality is the problem, a 50 percent water change must be made as soon as possible.

    yes Epsom salt, it will help, get the 10g cleared out and put it in there. It will die otherwise.
     
  7. jrow8162

    jrow8162 Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    You ever had a fish with popeye live? I've never been able to save one... Lost one of my Africans to it and then lost a black molly before that.
     
  8. WhiteGloveAquatics

    WhiteGloveAquatics New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nope, I never had a fish with it, never had a fish with much out of my tanks really, just a guppy with dropsy once a year or so.

    I just know if you catch it soon enough that epsom brings down the bloat, basically dehydrates the fish enough to get the fluid out and bacteria cant stand it.
     
  9. absntmnd69

    absntmnd69 Thread Starter New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    two days treated with maracyn 2 and still no results. which should i be using to treat gram negative maracyn or maracyn 2? i have to go back up to my lfs to take my brothers corner 50 to get looked at (leaked on floor last night).
     
  10. WhiteGloveAquatics

    WhiteGloveAquatics New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yes its gram negative bacteria you need to combat.
     
  11. absntmnd69

    absntmnd69 Thread Starter New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    again which maracyn treats gram negative?

    here is a pic of the ram:
    ai59.photobucket.com_albums_g320_absntmnd69_0329001315.jpg

    here is a pic of the discus:
    ai59.photobucket.com_albums_g320_absntmnd69_0329001602a.jpg
     
  12. WhiteGloveAquatics

    WhiteGloveAquatics New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I put a link up , not sure why it didnt show, didnt know website links wernt allowed, especially when you get info from a great site that isnt thrown together with images.

    here I will PM you since something is broken here.
     
  13. absntmnd69

    absntmnd69 Thread Starter New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    sweet...i can add ich to the list in that tank
     
  14. WhiteGloveAquatics

    WhiteGloveAquatics New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ich is different, you can treat that with heat and salt and continue treatment for 2 weeks after the visual symptoms are gone, ich will be gone.
     
  15. absntmnd69

    absntmnd69 Thread Starter New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    my clown loaches got it after i moved last week and ive been treating it since last week. now im going to get some erithromycin and moving the affected ram into my "hospital" tank and moving the two balloon rams ive had in QT for about 2 months now. it seems to be cheaper to treat in a 10 gallon tank rather than a 37 tall.
     
  16. absntmnd69

    absntmnd69 Thread Starter New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    update: fluid behind eye seems to have gone down a good amount. moved the ram to my ten and started treating with erythromycin.
     
  17. jrow8162

    jrow8162 Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Be careful with that medication in that tank. Erythromycin can kill a lot of the beneficial bacteria in the tank. Having said that, I cant believe that fish is still alive.
     
  18. absntmnd69

    absntmnd69 Thread Starter New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    fluid behind the eye is almost gone. fish is doing ok as is the 3 danios and two plecos (one baby albino bristlenose, one common) in the tank.
     
  19. MasterBlue

    MasterBlue Active Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Good to hear =3
    Seems your lucky, most people haven't been able to save the fish from what I'm told?
     
  20. absntmnd69

    absntmnd69 Thread Starter New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    thats what im told and it does seem that im lucky because my brother never was successful at keeping all of the rams he bought. i have lost 2 out of the 10 ive bought. these fish are my lucky fish.